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DARTHYOGA
07-21-2008, 05:56 PM
I have just bought a pair of Mace shorts and was dissapointed to find the pockets have been glued on.
Mace has always been well known for their quality garments, my husband has a pair of shorts that he trailbuilt in for two years with only a minor tear. Now they are gluing clothing together and its falling apart in the first wash or as my new shorts pockets prove, as soon as you slide your hands into them.
We have been waiting since March to have the last pair replaced and have an army of people trying to get them back for us.
I won't be buying anymore MACE clothing, instead I'm going to staple some fabric together and safety pin the MACE logo to it.




SammyJ
07-21-2008, 06:17 PM
Sorry to hear that.

Sombrio at least stiches their shorts, but my wife bought a pair and the crotch blew out first time on the mountain.

She took them back and got a different pair in exchange. Guess what - crotch blew out first time.

I have some azonic shorts from like 2002, they have been worn on damn near every ride I've been on, road or mountain since brand new. Look as good as the day they were made. The crotch on them is triple stitched. I say look for triple stitching in any bike shorts (not lycra) to ensure durability.

Lady Gravity
07-21-2008, 06:23 PM
everyone i know that has had those mace shorts has complained of the same issue. i'm going to stick with my RaceFace shorts - they're pretty much bombproof. actually anything either raceface or dakine is a pretty safe bet as to both durability and quality.

Fluid
07-21-2008, 06:24 PM
My Race Face DH shorts have taken a few big hits on sharp rocks and they've been absolutely bomb proof - not even one stitch has come undone. It really makes a difference when a company puts thought into the construction of their gear.

L. Ron Hubbard
07-21-2008, 07:04 PM
...I love that people think buying BIKE SPECIFIC mtb shorts for riding the shore makes a difference in how long they last. Or my personal favourite, "DESIGNED TO PREVENT SNAGS ON THE SEAT ON THOSE STEEP SECTIONS!!!"

heckler
07-21-2008, 07:07 PM
...I love that people think buying BIKE SPECIFIC mtb shorts for riding the shore makes a difference in how long they last. Or my personal favourite, "DESIGNED TO PREVENT SNAGS ON THE SEAT ON THOSE STEEP SECTIONS!!!"

This isn't the case here. Although I agree with your sarcasm, I've got a couple friends with Mace shorts that have fallen apart the first time they wash them. The zipper glue falls off.

Maybe they need to be washed cold and by hand? Do the instructions say so?

biggles604
07-21-2008, 07:13 PM
This isn't the case here. Although I agree with your sarcasm, I've got a couple friends with Mace shorts that have fallen apart the first time they wash them. The zipper glue falls off.

Maybe they need to be washed cold and by hand? Do the instructions say so?

Cold washing a heavily soiled garment isn't a great idea, plus, the designers should cater to the lowest common denominator: Think of the dumbest thing someone could do and make it able to handle it. In this case, if someone warm washes the item and it falls apart, then they don't have to honour the warranty, but it doesn't matter, they have just lost the trust of customers, and their friends.

chupacabra
07-21-2008, 07:16 PM
This isn't the case here. Although I agree with your sarcasm, I've got a couple friends with Mace shorts that have fallen apart the first time they wash them. The zipper glue falls off.

Maybe they need to be washed cold and by hand? Do the instructions say so?

I have those POS shorts too. After one wash, cold water and hung to dry, they pealed away at the vents. Hand washing might get you a few more washes, but there is no way Mace didn't discover this before they went to market.

Uncle Duke
07-21-2008, 07:22 PM
i like my prana shorts from mec...$32/pair and u can go for a swim, coffee , beer in them as well....


i find all the geared up peeps repping their favorite logos look kind of funny.




http://www.prana.com/0037-Mojo-Short.aspx

L. Ron Hubbard
07-21-2008, 07:23 PM
Welcome to the world of consumer testing.

heckler's better 1/2
07-21-2008, 07:52 PM
i'm with uncle d, my mec shorts have lasted 6+ years of riding! Not very stylish but for $45 it was money very well spent.

cyclist.ca
07-21-2008, 07:53 PM
I guess they are giving "planned obsolescence" a new definition here, eh?

Fluid
07-21-2008, 08:46 PM
i like my prana shorts from mec...$32/pair and u can go for a swim, coffee , beer in them as well....
http://www.prana.com/0037-Mojo-Short.aspx

i'm with uncle d, my mec shorts have lasted 6+ years of riding! Not very stylish but for $45 it was money very well spent.

Does MEC have any shorts that are 3/4 length?

gbv
07-21-2008, 08:53 PM
+3 for the MEC shorts. I have the old Huck and new Huck shorts and they are wearing well. The newer Huck looks pretty good too and is a bit longer below the knees.

gram
07-21-2008, 09:04 PM
I have a pair of mace shorts and wear them all the time XC and DH they have held up fine for over a year....and yes they have been washed. (in cold water and they have come clean)
I am not sure if they are glued or not, they were bought Apr07.

G-spot
07-21-2008, 09:06 PM
I have those POS shorts too. After one wash, cold water and hung to dry, they pealed away at the vents. Hand washing might get you a few more washes, but there is no way Mace didn't discover this before they went to market.

The same for me on the Mace shorts that I have ( I reglued them)

sanrensho
07-21-2008, 09:07 PM
Roach shorts (pre-RF) FTW.

Indestructible and well-designed. Excellent material, perfect weight for riding.

G-spot
07-21-2008, 09:08 PM
I would also say that CORE Rats are GREAT!!

heckler's better 1/2
07-21-2008, 09:12 PM
Does MEC have any shorts that are 3/4 length?

yup, just picked up a brown and black pair. I've been wearing them to work as they are so comfy!

pedalhound
07-21-2008, 09:13 PM
I bought a few pair of Spectrum Techware shorts...and LOVE them....the best part is they are having a sale on them on their site...I bought two pairs of shorts (the gunslingers and the greasemonkeys)...they threw in a tshirt and all in all it cost me $83 bucks with shipping....a helluva deal.

So far ridden in them a bunch....camped in them....wear them to work....and no issues...super comfy and tough....I would thoroughly recommend them.

Bryce
07-21-2008, 09:18 PM
old Mace clothing wasn't too bad, like 03, but the newer stuff is crap. And I've also had to re-stitch every pair of Mace gloves that I've owned

FlipFantasia
07-21-2008, 09:23 PM
I'll throw in a vote for MEC trippers, nylon/lycra blend, just past the knees, lightweight, I use them with a padded liner, plus they're only 37 bucks....

hypa
07-21-2008, 10:13 PM
My 08' RaceFace Bearclaw shorts were shredded after the first ride, whereas the old 02' RaceFace shorts that I rode for years are still going strong.

My brand new Sombrio jersey started to fray at the sleeves after 2 rides. My old Shift Squadron is still fine after 3 years.

My 08' Marzocchi 55QR forks took a slight rub against a rock, and a piece shattered off. My 06' forks have been bashed regularly since 06', and are still in supreme shape.

Bottom line, virtually anything made in the last year has gone to shit. Marzocchi went to China for mfg, and in doing so, killed any sort of respect I had for them. Same goes for the crap they sell in the stores. It's not made for riding, it's made so you can look cool standing by your bike. I don't roll like that.


Don't get me started on gloves either. I've gone through 2 sets already this year, and it's only July!

Wayne P
07-21-2008, 10:25 PM
Most moto stuff (TLD, Fox, etc) is built much better than mtb specific junk. Sombrio makes some good quality clothing though. The worst thing about the mtb gear is that its generally made light so its easy to pedal around in, but then it usually falls apart soon after. And its double the price.

big ben
07-21-2008, 10:51 PM
Dickies shorts FTW

hypa
07-21-2008, 11:02 PM
And its double the price.

Isn't that the truth.....
Good point about the weight factor though, I never thought of that.

I still blame offshore manufacturing most though. When you need something to handle abuse, you need to use good quality materials, most of which aren't available in China. Not to mention quality control, another aspect that's lacking in China.

xy9ine
07-21-2008, 11:05 PM
Dickies shorts FTW

indeed. classic, comfy, bomber & cheap.

SammyJ
07-21-2008, 11:08 PM
Isn't that the truth.....
Good point about the weight factor though, I never thought of that.

I still blame offshore manufacturing most though. When you need something to handle abuse, you need to use good quality materials, most of which aren't available in China. Not to mention quality control, another aspect that's lacking in China.

I hate to call you out on this, because I really agree with you in principle BUT:

The main reason 'made in china' stuff is crap is the companies that contract out to the chinese firms do so to save money. If they really wanted a high quality product the chinese firms could provide it, evidenced by Nike and their reinvented corporate image.

ERregular
07-21-2008, 11:21 PM
I recently bought a pair of Mace Nitrate shorts (my first MTB specific shorts) and they lasted exactly one ride. I replaced them with the same model, which did exactly the same thing. I liked the design of the shorts, but NO WAY will I buy Mace clothing again. I waited for warantee, but then the shop hooked me up with a full refund of the price with which I can get a real pair of biking shorts.

shirk
07-21-2008, 11:40 PM
Isn't that the truth.....
Good point about the weight factor though, I never thought of that.

I still blame offshore manufacturing most though. When you need something to handle abuse, you need to use good quality materials, most of which aren't available in China. Not to mention quality control, another aspect that's lacking in China.

Are you joking? Do you know first hand what matterials are available where and what factories are able to produce what?

Please explain further and show some proof about substandard production over seas.

rabidllama
07-21-2008, 11:48 PM
I hate to call you out on this, because I really agree with you in principle BUT:

The main reason 'made in china' stuff is crap is the companies that contract out to the chinese firms do so to save money. If they really wanted a high quality product the chinese firms could provide it, evidenced by Nike and their reinvented corporate image.

QFT

chupacabra
07-21-2008, 11:59 PM
The main manufacturer that we represent has 2 factories making the exact same thing. One is in New York and the other is in Thailand I can assure you that the overseas factory has far more QC issues despite the fact they are not that much cheaper that New York anymore. Perhaps if efforts were made by companies to pay more for the overseas products and implement better QC like Nike did the quality can get up to par, but the statement that overseas materials are inferior is correct for the most part. A lot of these factories have been pumping out cheap crap for years and giving them more money won't mean they suddenly understand quality standards.

shirk
07-22-2008, 12:24 AM
The main manufacturer that we represent has 2 factories making the exact same thing. One is in New York and the other is in Thailand I can assure you that the overseas factory has far more QC issues despite the fact they are not that much cheaper that New York anymore. Perhaps if efforts were made by companies to pay more for the overseas products and implement better QC like Nike did the quality can get up to par, but the statement that overseas materials are inferior is correct for the most part. A lot of these factories have been pumping out cheap crap for years and giving them more money won't mean they suddenly understand quality standards.

Thats a failure on the parent company. If done right you can get highest level of any product made anywhere you want. It's about setting a system of processes and standards.

Materials are inferior if you spec it. QC is lacking if you don't implement it.

I've seen plenty of product in several industries coming from overseas that meets or exceeds the highest standards of any G8 country could produce.

Smoke
07-22-2008, 02:05 AM
I bought a few pair of Spectrum Techware shorts...and LOVE them....the best part is they are having a sale on them on their site...I bought two pairs of shorts (the gunslingers and the greasemonkeys)...they threw in a tshirt and all in all it cost me $83 bucks with shipping....a helluva deal.

So far ridden in them a bunch....camped in them....wear them to work....and no issues...super comfy and tough....I would thoroughly recommend them.

werd.

You can even buy them online.

http://www.spectrumtechwear.com

wa90
07-22-2008, 04:29 AM
Am after some new shorts. Will give those a go, despite them having some of the crappest designs on earth on their other stuff. Distressed Courier typeface? Good lord. :D

Lady Gravity
07-22-2008, 05:48 AM
werd.

You can even buy them online.

http://www.spectrumtechwear.com

cool - but i'm desperately trying to find sizing info. is it buried on there somewhere or should i resort to email?

rabidllama
07-22-2008, 05:50 AM
cool - but i'm desperately trying to find sizing info. is it buried on there somewhere or should i resort to email?

bottom right, by the ordering info, has several options with waist sizes and reg./long options.

Lady Gravity
07-22-2008, 05:59 AM
bottom right, by the ordering info, has several options with waist sizes and reg./long options.

i saw that - just want to know the diff between "long" and "reg"

shirk
07-22-2008, 06:23 AM
cool - but i'm desperately trying to find sizing info. is it buried on there somewhere or should i resort to email?

Go see mattj, he carries Spectrum and usually has all sizes.

I think he has them on sale right now.

sanrensho
07-22-2008, 06:30 AM
Thats a failure on the parent company. If done right you can get highest level of any product made anywhere you want. It's about setting a system of processes and standards.

Exactly. QC is a management issue, not a geographic one. And there are plenty of examples of companies that have moved production offshore, and to Asia specifically, without dropping quality.

Furthermore, production in North America is no guarantee of quality.

philly56
07-22-2008, 07:09 AM
I got a pair of mace pants with the zipper to convert to shorts, first pair came apart after the second wash. Just started to separate on the pockets. Returned it to cap's even though I had no receipt and did not purchase them there, and now second pair is also coming apart. Bottom line, there stuff is crap. I'll be shopping at mec or the moto shop for stuff from now on. Of course I still prefer the Dickies shorts if I'm going to be building at all.

HappyGilmore
07-22-2008, 08:32 AM
Go see mattj, he carries Spectrum and usually has all sizes.

I think he has them on sale right now.

I got the Spectrum Wilson shorts from Matt's North Shore Bike Shop (N Van) and have been very pleased. Vents/zippered (secure) cargo pockets and easy adjust waist have been great for me to date. Dozen + washings and mine still look new (first ever MTB short for me).

PUNKY
07-22-2008, 03:23 PM
my fox moto shorts from 98ish are still going strong. also ride in an old pair of black volcom chino shorts. work pretty darn good too as they have a slimmer fit.

we will see how my sombrio revs and oakley 3.7s hold up this year(i dont know about the built in chamios though, feels uncomfortable). my thrust jersey popped some stiching at the shoulder when i pulled it off after a ride. loved to hear that sound on a $75 shirt. jt shirt has some snags in the arms, but thats not the jerseys fault, more so the owners lack of an ability to avoid bushes while riding :lol: sombrio sox are holding up well(should have gotten another pair though)

the dakine nomad is still going strong. i just hate the cap on the bladder. looks like its missing an O-ring, cuz unless its absolutely perfect it will leak water. love the bite valve though. cross x's look fine. some stitching id frayed but, these are in better shape than my dakine cobra gloves.

5.10s just need a cleaning, fox flux is all good, and the flak jackets are still criminally smooth

chupacabra
07-22-2008, 06:05 PM
Thats a failure on the parent company. If done right you can get highest level of any product made anywhere you want. It's about setting a system of processes and standards.

Materials are inferior if you spec it. QC is lacking if you don't implement it.

I've seen plenty of product in several industries coming from overseas that meets or exceeds the highest standards of any G8 country could produce.

It is a lot harder for the parent company to maintain QC in Thailand, whether you want to believe it or not, plus you miss the point. Products made in China "could" be as you say, but they seldom are, so the statement "Chinese products are inferior" is correct for the most part.

As for my the manufacturer that we represent, the specs that both New York and Bankok work from are identical, and you can't tell the products apart, but when we have QC issues it is almost always in the stock from Bankok.

chupacabra
07-22-2008, 06:09 PM
Exactly. QC is a management issue, not a geographic one. And there are plenty of examples of companies that have moved production offshore, and to Asia specifically, without dropping quality.

Furthermore, production in North America is no guarantee of quality.

The only way any of your examples maintain QC is by sending teams of people to the plants from North America or Europe, so it is geographic. For now anyway.

L. Ron Hubbard
07-22-2008, 06:48 PM
jeans + scissors.

Lady Gravity
07-22-2008, 07:14 PM
jeans + scissors.

next you'll be wanting me to wear plaid boxers, big studded belt, and have said jeans hanging off my hips just like all the cool kids :rolleyes:

Wayne P
07-22-2008, 07:20 PM
When I worked in the snowboard clothing biz, the owner of the company outsourced to China to gain in QC without added cost. No doubt the product that came back was way better in stitching and materials than what could be produced here at the time.

L. Ron Hubbard
07-22-2008, 08:29 PM
next you'll be wanting me to wear plaid boxers, big studded belt, and have said jeans hanging off my hips just like all the cool kids :rolleyes:

No, I don't ever want to think about your underwear choices ever again.

Nothing is worse than people who spend a ton of money on retarded "mtb specific" clothes because they seem to think they will make them better riders, but in reality are a) ugly b) expensive c) work about as well as riding in fucking normal fucking clothes. Ever had the pockets fall off your jeans?

Jerry-Rig
07-22-2008, 08:32 PM
jeans are too hot

hypa
07-22-2008, 08:36 PM
I hate to call you out on this, because I really agree with you in principle BUT:

The main reason 'made in china' stuff is crap is the companies that contract out to the chinese firms do so to save money. If they really wanted a high quality product the chinese firms could provide it, evidenced by Nike and their reinvented corporate image.

Here's the problem.....
There are a lot of Chinese factories that will agree to use quality materials, but if you're not doing your due diligence to ensure that they maintain the high levels of quality, chances are your materials will be substituted for lesser cost materials.

Just like the earthquake a few months ago. A lot of shit went down, from contractors using substandard concrete, to using smaller framing materials, to using less materials, like 20" center to center studs instead of 16".

Here's a quote from the NPR to show that this isn't uncommon in China.
[QUOTE]The anger of villagers like Wang Ming starts to boil over as they talk about shoddy construction. He says the building was poorly constructed and that the person in charge of quality control for the construction took bribes.

A man shows a piece of cement from what he says was a pillar. He breaks it in half to show how soft it was

[email protected]
07-22-2008, 08:51 PM
I was just at the launch for the '09 Mace product, and they have made major changes to the line for next year. They tried something different with the glue lamination and it didn't work, so it has been scrapped.

Virtually all seams and pockets are stitched for next year, and there are some cool offerings - as far as shorts go, anyway.

As far as problems with existing product go, take it back to the store where you bought it and they should look after you.

Stay tuned for an article on new Mace clothing in the next few weeks.

hypa
07-22-2008, 08:51 PM
It is a lot harder for the parent company to maintain QC in Thailand,

exactly.
Someone from my company has to fly to Taiwain and China to ensure that they're doing their job as negotiated. I can't tell you how many times I've recieved a new shipment from China, only to find they didn't meet the dimension requirements of my product, used filler instead of pure brass, and utilize low quality cardboard to pack the stuff into. My stuff from Taiwan is pretty good, but they've been doing my product for 25 years. It better be good.


Btw Shirk, Nike uses factories in many countries as found with a simple google search.

In its 108-page corporate responsibility report, Nike discloses the names of 124 plants in China contracted to make its products, 73 in Thailand, 35 in South Korea, 34 in Vietnam -- with others elsewhere in Asia, as well as in South America, Australia, Canada, Italy, Mexico, Turkey and the United States.

DARTHYOGA
07-22-2008, 09:08 PM
No, I don't ever want to think about your underwear choices ever again.

Nothing is worse than people who spend a ton of money on retarded "mtb specific" clothes because they seem to think they will make them better riders, but in reality are a) ugly b) expensive c) work about as well as riding in fucking normal fucking clothes. Ever had the pockets fall off your jeans?

I totaly agree. The first three years on the bike I wore second hand stuff and it always did the job. It was only after I saw how my husbands shorts held out so well that I decided to get a pair of my own. I do like the look and from what I had seen they were quality shorts.
The product I bought failed.
I'll be back at the Thrift Stores look for used stuff again thats for sure.

PS the clothing didn't make me a better rider Endless Biking did!

Fluid
07-22-2008, 09:16 PM
PS the clothing didn't make me a better rider Endless Biking did!

Endless Biking has made us all better riders! :woot:
(shameless plug for a company that I don't work for :D)

Lady Gravity
07-22-2008, 09:18 PM
Nothing is worse than people who spend a ton of money on retarded "mtb specific" clothes because they seem to think they will make them better riders, but in reality are a) ugly b) expensive c) work about as well as riding in fucking normal fucking clothes. Ever had the pockets fall off your jeans?

i buy mtb shorts because they are a) comfortable and b) sturdy. they are also cooler because of the vents. i dont like riding in jeans, very uncomfortable specially in the winter. as for thinking that biking clothes will make you a better rider...LOL

why do you care what people wear when they ride?

Ducati
07-22-2008, 09:55 PM
Nothing is worse than people who spend a ton of money on retarded "mtb specific" clothes because they seem to think they will make them better riders, but in reality are a) ugly b) expensive c) work about as well as riding in fucking normal fucking clothes. Ever had the pockets fall off your jeans?

Actually what is worst is sweeping generalization & insults.

Do you really think the majority of people on this board are purchasing something because they believe it'll make them a better rider?!? Not everyone is a poser or a sheep to trends...

Hmmm now why would anyone purchase a light weight, vented, water resistant, quick to dry, durable/tear resistant piece of clothing for mountain biking?

L. Ron Hubbard
07-22-2008, 10:15 PM
I was just at the launch for the '09 Mace product, and they have made major changes to the line for next year. They tried something different with the glue lamination and it didn't work, so it has been scrapped.

Virtually all seams and pockets are stitched for next year, and there are some cool offerings - as far as shorts go, anyway.

As far as problems with existing product go, take it back to the store where you bought it and they should look after you.

Stay tuned for an article on new Mace clothing in the next few weeks.

I'm sure I should keep my mouth shut on this, but seriously, how do you feel about Mace's lack of testing on this? I mean, they obviously didn't even get any test pairs before hocking them off on the public, and that's just plain irresponsible. No amount of warranty replacement can undo that.

Fluid
07-22-2008, 10:20 PM
I'm sure I should keep my mouth shut on this, but seriously, how do you feel about Mace's lack of testing on this? I mean, they obviously didn't even get any test pairs before hocking them off on the public, and that's just plain irresponsible. No amount of warranty replacement can undo that.

There is another thread in the Gear forum about the testing:
http://bb.nsmb.com/showthread.php?t=113394

L. Ron Hubbard
07-22-2008, 10:21 PM
Do you really think the majority of people on this board are purchasing something because they believe it'll make them a better rider?!?
Yes, maybe not a majority, but a large percentage of this board for sure. When I say "make them a better rider" I don't mean that like, they ACTUALLY make the conscious decision to go "buy some skill," but like, MTB is totally saturated with Oakleys, Fox jerseys, Mace shorts, and a ton of other shit that sucks. People just buy it to be mtb.

Hmmm now why would anyone purchase a light weight, vented, water resistant, quick to dry, durable/tear resistant piece of clothing for mountain biking?
If it wasn't disgustingly ugly (see: Fox) or expensive (see: any mtb-specific shit), that sounds just fine.

L. Ron Hubbard
07-22-2008, 10:23 PM
There is another thread in the Gear forum about the testing:
http://bb.nsmb.com/showthread.php?t=113394

Ahaha, "extensive testing on initial samples." I dunno...

cyclist.ca
07-22-2008, 10:24 PM
http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:AiCO0_VXPqMJ::http://www.myspacecutecomments.com/images/funny/cute-funny-animals-01.jpg