What Spokes?

[bigguy]

I'm building a Dh wheel set with Maviv 823 rims, with Hope Pro 2 hubs. I'm pretty clueless about spokes. I'm looking for some that are light, and strong, but they don't need to be bombproof. What is double butted spokes?

[big-ted]

Double butted means that the spoke is thinner in the middle part of it's length than at the ends. This saves a bit of weight whilst keeping the critical parts of the spoke strong. If you think this is for you, go with DT competition spokes. The revolutions (also by DT) are the same thing, but more "extremely" butted, so as to save ever so slightly more weight. Bear in mind that, due to the shorter length spokes used by these rims (and the longer nipples suggested below) many shops will have to special order spokes for you. I had to buy a box of 100 for one wheel as my lbs didn't want a ton of spokes sitting around that they can't use.

Are you used to building wheels? Not to be an ass, but the 823s are a bit of a pain to build due to the screw in nipple cups. Not the best wheelset to start on in my opinion.

That said, I have built a couple of 823s up. Here's some tips:

If possible, use a measuring chart to determine the spoke length. The DT spoke length calculator has a history of being inaccurate with these particular rims. I used 256s on my 150 rear Hope bulb.

Use at least 14mm brass nipples, preferably 16mm. Standard is 12mm but these wont protrude from the screw in cups very far, which makes getting a spoke key on them a bit awkward. Don't even bother with aluminium nipples, though this applies to any wheel.

Use blue loctite on the nipple cups to prevent loosening.

Put some chain lube on the both the spoke threads and the round portion of the nipple to enable easy and even tensioning. Again, true of any wheel.

Note that, once built, the rim is completely sealed. Don't drop anything in there. It gets annoying real quick.

Good luck!

[freakonaleash]

Ted, why brass nipples ? I thought you only had to run brass with ti spokes..

[big-ted]

Ted, why brass nipples ? I thought you only had to run brass with ti spokes..

Because brass nipples can be tightened more. Weight weenies will protest there's nothing wrong with alu nipples, and if you don't mind being gentle with the spoke key, there isn't. However, if you want the wheel to be as stiff as possible, you want more tension in the spokes. Alu nipples will snap and round off if tightened excessively, and break due to fatigue over time. Brass for the win, especially considering this guy's user name! :)

On xc wheels, and rims without eyelets, the above is less important, as excessive tension on the spoke will cause the nipple to pull through the rim anyway.

Wheelbuilding is a dark art. Everyone has their own take on it. This is mine, and as I have a set of DH wheels going on 6 years old having been absolutely BEAT on, I'm fairly stuck in my ways! :D

[sicklines.com]

big-ted hit on a lot of points most of which hold true.

A nice spoke is also the supercomp over the revolutions that is recommended for disc use, i'm not aware that they suggest revolutions in disc applications.

Brass nipples are the way to go. Initially, Aluminum nipples work fine but once its time to tension/true/fix a wheel they will often turn brittle and break off especially if you're not using a good spoke wrench.

Tri flow while tensioning/building is a good tip and blue loctite is highly suggested for the nipple inserts on the 823's as well as 14mm nipples at least.

A spoke calculator is only as good as the numbers you put in. DT's site has the erd of the 823 incorrectly i believe in there.

[biggles604]

I have a real issue with spoke calculators, every one I try seems to differ slightly, and I have yet to find on that will take different nipple lengths into consideration.

[SammyJ]

I have been told by various sources that you shouldn't use butted spokes on disc wheels. I don't know why exactly, but that's what I hear.

On a road bike however, butted spokes supposedly make a more durable wheel. Reason being that the thinner mid-section offers more elasticity, allowing the entire wheel to temporarily deform as a unit when hit real hard (hopping curbs, hitting potholes etc.) instead of bending the rim locally at the point of impact.

Truth or fiction?

[Oldfart]

I have been told by various sources that you shouldn't use butted spokes on disc wheels. I don't know why exactly, but that's what I hear.

On a road bike however, butted spokes supposedly make a more durable wheel. Reason being that the thinner mid-section offers more elasticity, allowing the entire wheel to temporarily deform as a unit when hit real hard (hopping curbs, hitting potholes etc.) instead of bending the rim locally at the point of impact.

Truth or fiction?

Fiction double butted and discs work fine. There is no reason to use one over the other just because one uses disc brakes.


Truth. For any wheel double butted will be more resiliant but straight guage should be stiffer at the same tension. Most people can't feel the stiffness difference between straight and db spokes.

[SammyJ]

Good info Oldfart. Makes sense that the straight spokes would be stiffer.

I have never understood the advantage to a super stiff wheel tho...

[Bryce]

I have never understood the advantage to a super stiff wheel tho...

less wind-up maybe?

[SammyJ]

Maybe, but if that were the case wouldn't the advice about straight gauge spokes on disc wheels be truth?